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  • Surf Tabs AND Gates


    CUCV
    • Year: 2005 Brand: Tige Model / Trim: 22v Device Type : Hinged Gate Style, Tab Style Surf Device Material: Stainless Steel Control: Powered with Automated Controller Cost: $1500-$1999 Platform Type: Teak
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    I long pondered building a tab or gate style surf system and in the end figured why not build both.  I felt the ability to independently control the pitch, roll and yaw would help me create the best possible wave.   Initially I thought I was going to go with just a thruster style tab system so I had already drawn them up.  When going to the tab and gate system I had to reduce the length of the tabs to make it work.  Since I had the original tabs drawn up I figured I might as well make them at the same time and test the different designs.

    The .125" stainless tabs and gates were cut on a waterjet.  The hinges are .090" piano hinge from McMaster cut to length and welded on the end.  I used 102F Lenco actuators on the gates and they have 60 degrees range of motion.  They actuate thru the full range in a very similar amount of time as the 101XDS actuators used on the tabs.  The tab extend 12 degrees and retract 25 degrees.  ( I would have set them up to extend more for the short tab but I was trying to balance using one setup for both short and long tabs.)  The hinges on the tabs cross a step in the hull so I cut a wedge out of aluminum flat bar to fill the gap.

    The Arduino controls are in the initial stages of development and just function enough to control the gates and tabs on a bluetooth app but the GPS is not triggering functions.

    Throughout initial testing I have been keeping the boat evenly weighted. In the Bow I have a W711 V bag but only feel I'm getting 250 lbs in it.  I have W712 Enzo sacs in the rear and feel I'm getting 1150 maybe 1200lbs in each of them.  Previously I surfed the boat listed.  Initially with only one rear bag, then added in bow bag, then added DIY suck gate(s) then an offside bag.  I never got to the point where I got a clean wave evenly weighted.

    First test was evenly weighted, gate fully deployed.  I had similar results that I had with the suck gate, a wave that wasn't clean and that I didn't want to surf.  I believe that a taller gate and/or more bow weight could help the wave in this configuration.

    2nd test was evenly weighted, tab fully deployed.  Very surfable wave that was clean on the back end but the lip of the front end of the wave had a dirty lip.  I can see the dirty lip was coming from the swim platform.  Running listed in the past, the surf side corner of my large OEM swim platform was way under water and not disturbing the wave.  By draining off side weight I could clean up the lip and maintain push with a bit of reduction height.

    3rd test was evenly weighted, tabs and gates fully deployed.  The wave looked beautiful but the front end of the wave lacked a defined lip on the front end and the wave lacked push.  We currently surf the wave with the tab fully deployed and the gate 70% extended.  This the point were the front end of the lip gets a touch dirty but is defined.

    I did run a test listed with tab fully deployed.  Obviously the wave height was reduced but surfed a super long wave at 13mph.  I did add in gate but don't recall it making a significant difference either way.  I also tried it with the tab retracted and gate deployed but all I can remember was the tab wave was better.

    Future tests:  I ordered a W707 bag to try more bow weight.  Remove the small tabs and gates and install the larger thruster style tabs.  Make larger plain tabs without the thrusters to get more roll and leave the yaw to the gates.  Make a quick trimmed down swim platform for testing purposes but we like our large swim platform and I know I can get rid of the wave scaring by getting more roll.  I might go so far as to scribe in a bracket on the transom so I can make taller gates.  I feel the gates are to low, but if I can get more roll from bigger tabs this may not be necessary.

     

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    I'll know know more after I try the long tabs alone.  Right now it's been fun having both, we can dial in a nice wave with evenly weighted ballast and 2-10 people in the boat sitting where ever they want.

    With my experience thus far, if I only had one it would be the tabs.  Adding gates from a cost perspective is mostly about the cost of the actuators which isn't all that bad.

    It's a bit hard for me to quantify the value vs. the time spent to do both for the first time.  I was actually working towards a much more elaborate design, which took a bunch of time, but simplified it to this to get it in the water.  When it comes to the install time, I already had all the tools out so there is efficiency in increased quantity.  I drilled 50 some odd holes below waterline for this system.  7 screws broke off flush during the install (including Lenco OEM screws), which was super frustrating.   I bought some screws on Amazon with a different thread pitch and didn't break a single one.

     

    20 hours ago, SONICJK said:

    Hell yeah! I've been wanting someone to give this a go, best of both worlds. 

    So is the wave with the gate and the tab better enough to justify the additional cost and time?

     

     

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    I would love to play with this. Great job. The combo are almost endless. It would take me 100s of hours to find the dial in.  I think I would start fat even both sides gate 100%  add tab as needed. then 90% then 80% then switch to tab fully and add gate as needed  It wouldn't surprise me if it turn out to be 60% gate 40% tab. that is my prediction LOL Kinda what NSS is 60% out the side 40% down.  this is truly awesome Again great job!!!!!!! 

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    Tell me about it!!! Endless combinations!

    As stated earlier I felt I needed more bow weight. I got the new bag to put in the isle but forgot to buy a fitting to run it in line with the V bag. So I just filled the isle bag with about 500lbs. With taps all the way down I couldn't get the bow to come down with Taps even at 1. I added 500lbs of lead on top of the seat as far forward as possible and what a change it made. The swim platform has been 6" below water when ballasted all summer with this setup it's near the surface. Engine rpms dropped and the boat is more drivable with gate deployed.

    On 9/3/2021 at 9:05 PM, AllFAB said:

    I would love to play with this. Great job. The combo are almost endless. It would take me 100s of hours to find the dial in.  I think I would start fat even both sides gate 100%  add tab as needed. then 90% then 80% then switch to tab fully and add gate as needed  It wouldn't surprise me if it turn out to be 60% gate 40% tab. that is my prediction LOL Kinda what NSS is 60% out the side 40% down.  this is truly awesome Again great job!!!!!!! 

     

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    someone finally tried it!  and the dog approves in one of the first pics :D

    from past research and referencing your second test, those tabs might have to retract more to ensure they're not dirtying the lip on the non-surf side.  i bet if you raise your platform a couple inches AND retract the tabs all the way up, it will look much better.

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    The boat and mods are definitely dog approve, they love the new step too.  We have 2 Goldens and they hung with me on the couple all nighters to complete the mods. One night around 11pm I had the garage door open, a skunk walked by the door and the puppy went after it, it sprayed, filling the barn with the nasty odor, that was a very long night.

     

    When I drew it up I went back and forth on the height of the thruster vanes especially with the shorter tabs. CAD said it would clear the waterline coming off the bottom of the hull with my desired retracted angle. (I'm trying to balance short and long tabs with the same setup and my limiting factor is the platform bracket)

    When I first installed the short tabs, I was like,"this won't work" and almost cut back the leading edge of the thruster to get more clearance. So the very first test was... do I get spray off the retracted tabs at various speeds and I don't.

    I can see where the scaring is coming from and how the water flows over/around the platform. I can remove the scar with increased yaw from the gate or increased roll from draining off side ballast and the platform goes deeper in the water on the surf side. When I increase yaw to remove it, I loose push. When I remove offside Ballast I loose height.  Super cool to make these changes on the fly and to see and feel the feedback immediately. With the Bluetooth app in the test stage, the actuators are just named M1, M2, M3 and M4, this has made it easy to communicate with my son which actuator to move.

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    Very nice job on this project, I was thinking of doing something similar but just for the Tabs, and I pondered using the Aduino controle unit, where did you get the circuit plans?  that's the only part that I wasn't sure.

    Again nice work!

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    Thanks @GaryH

    Below is a link to a great build thread with circuit plan for a 2 actuator system that you could use for just tabs.

     

     

    1 hour ago, GaryH said:

    Very nice job on this project, I was thinking of doing something similar but just for the Tabs, and I pondered using the Aduino controle unit, where did you get the circuit plans?  that's the only part that I wasn't sure.

    Again nice work!

     

     

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    15 hours ago, hman89 said:

    How is the Arduino controls coming along?

    No new progress on the controls at this time.  It functions well enough at this point to use and just lacks some of the niceties.  I just hit "Surf Left" and it fully deploys the corresponding gate and tab fully.  I like the tabs deployed fully but as the wave forms I back off on gate deployment.  If the rider falls I hit "Home".  Eventually the plan is to get the GPS to deploy and retract the tabs.  We also want to have savable rider configuration slots.

    surfapp.jpg

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    15 hours ago, jtryon said:

    @CUCVin the pics above, which pics are from which setup?

    So we very quickly found we liked surfing with a tab fully deployed with our initial weight setup and wishing for more tab length or deployment angle.  All the pics are tab fully deployed.  We typically back off the gate deployment until we just get scaring on the lead edge lip.

    The first pic is early in the season can't remember much of the set but can see mild foam on the lead edge lip.

    2nd pic is really just for a pic not really a fun wave to surf.  We were going slower like 10.5 or a bit less, gate is backed off more than normal  with how steep it is and the dirty lip.

    Last 2 pics are from the same ride with slightly less gate deployment in the pic with dirtier lip.  Add more gate deployment it cleans up and rolls over the lead edge lip but sacrifices some push.

     

    The last few weekends we have been running alot more bow weight and really has changed things.   I will try and run thru tab only and gate only tests this weekend and take pics.

     

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    On 9/30/2021 at 8:11 AM, CUCV said:

    So we very quickly found we liked surfing with a tab fully deployed with our initial weight setup and wishing for more tab length or deployment angle.  All the pics are tab fully deployed.  We typically back off the gate deployment until we just get scaring on the lead edge lip.

    The first pic is early in the season can't remember much of the set but can see mild foam on the lead edge lip.

    2nd pic is really just for a pic not really a fun wave to surf.  We were going slower like 10.5 or a bit less, gate is backed off more than normal  with how steep it is and the dirty lip.

    Last 2 pics are from the same ride with slightly less gate deployment in the pic with dirtier lip.  Add more gate deployment it cleans up and rolls over the lead edge lip but sacrifices some push.

     

    The last few weekends we have been running alot more bow weight and really has changed things.   I will try and run thru tab only and gate only tests this weekend and take pics.

     

    Looking forward to updates on this one.

    Awesome build!

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    Very cool build. Something I'm looking to try is along the lines of Moomba's Flow 3.0, probably another way to skin the cat and control pitch, roll, and yaw. I'm going to take a closer look at it during boat show in a couple weeks, but Wake9 did an awesome video on this system showing the difference in wave when using just the plate, then adding the secondary plate/flap. I haven't spent anytime on the arduino side to be able to function both actuators with the touch of a button and would love to hear more about code modifications you made to run two actuators simultaneously. I'm going to template this style out of 1/4" plywood to see about angles/actuator placement. What I like about this setup vs. the thruster style tab is I can use the plates for things other than surfing, like mellowing the wave for beginners wakeboarding/kneeboarding and perhaps even skiing; so far that's just a theory in my head since it's frozen here and I can't test a darn thing.

    Are you willing to share how you tweaked the code and wired up your 8 relay board?

     

     

    flow 3.0.jpg

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    For most of the summer my preference was clearly Tabs.  At the end of the season I started to change my ballast setup and added significant weight to the bow of the boat.  With the the new ballast configuration I felt the Tab only and Gate only waves were both great.  However,  We don't run all that bow weight when we have more than 4-5 in the boat (ballast makes it hard to sit in the bow) or when there is alot of boat traffic.  We ended up with the bow under seat bag, The isle bag, 300 lbs lead on the bow seat and 250lbs lead to the stern of the isle bag.  The isle bag is plumbed in line with the bow bag currently.  Once the isle bag is drained down, I stop the pump and put in an inline coupling to finish pumping down the under seat bow bag.  I purchased a larger boat lift earlier this winter and plan to be leaving the bow lead in the boat under the seat.

    Tabs pros:

    Easier to steer than Gates

    Better accommodates various ballast configuration and passenger seating configurations than Gates

    Gate pros:

    Easier to fabricate and install than Tabs

    Both Tabs and Gates pros"

    Tons of wave adjustability to help find the "best wave"

    I haven't started designing any of the changes I'm thinking of doing this winter but I'm thinking of doing a flat plate tab so I have a true comparison Tabs vs Gates.  I'm also thinking of building a new swim platform so I can make a tab that is higher.  Since I have the actuators and controls in place I have also thought of building a Flow 3.0 style plate.

    wellis77, I'll have to look up the Wake9 video.  I agree with you about the other benefits of a flat tab design and is one of the reasons I'd like to implement that for this season.

    I can definitely talk you thru questions on the wiring.  As far as the Arduino side I'm not yet well versed in it and it need a bit more to function as completely as the 2 actuator code but there are lots of work arounds.

    So I was going to basically "cut and paste" the 2 actuator code for 4 actuators.  I asked my cousin who is well versed in coding to look over my shoulder as I did so.  Well, we got talking that night about all the other functionality I wanted and he said he would just write the code over from scratch and create a new app, which was amazing!  All this happened when I was ready to get on the water.  The control box is fully functional, manually without code, but the initial code was done before my first day on the water.  Although the code is yet to be finished, it was complete enough to do all the necessary functions.  Since, all the other functions weren't necessary... it went on the low priority list.

     

    4 hours ago, wellis77 said:

    Very cool build. Something I'm looking to try is along the lines of Moomba's Flow 3.0, probably another way to skin the cat and control pitch, roll, and yaw. I'm going to take a closer look at it during boat show in a couple weeks, but Wake9 did an awesome video on this system showing the difference in wave when using just the plate, then adding the secondary plate/flap. I haven't spent anytime on the arduino side to be able to function both actuators with the touch of a button and would love to hear more about code modifications you made to run two actuators simultaneously. I'm going to template this style out of 1/4" plywood to see about angles/actuator placement. What I like about this setup vs. the thruster style tab is I can use the plates for things other than surfing, like mellowing the wave for beginners wakeboarding/kneeboarding and perhaps even skiing; so far that's just a theory in my head since it's frozen here and I can't test a darn thing.

    Are you willing to share how you tweaked the code and wired up your 8 relay board?

     

    bow weight.jpg

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    Definitely check out the wake 9 vid on flow 3.0,  makes me think that is the better iteration of all worlds. Also. A great discussion on the Moomba owners site of 2.0 vs. 3.0, one in which Sonic was also sharing his expertise. A challenge I’ll have is space for the secondary actuator when stowed. 3.0 stows in the same plane as the running surface, rather than at X degrees up. Moomba also runs a huge center plate so not sure if in plane stowage will mess up the wave or not compared to a wedged boat; one way to find out. If GSA could also be used for something other than surfing without fear of ripping the screws out of the boat, I’d just build a set of those. I’m not sure how excited the local dealer will be with me trying to get some measurements on their plates at the boat show but I’m going to try. 

    For your electronics, did you use the same boards for your build as the two actuator system but with an extra relay board? I have a ton to learn about arduino to make this work, hopefully I can figure out programming before the season hits or I’ll have to settle for GSA style or Evolution style. 

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    On 1/22/2022 at 6:52 AM, wellis77 said:

    Definitely check out the wake 9 vid on flow 3.0,  makes me think that is the better iteration of all worlds. Also. A great discussion on the Moomba owners site of 2.0 vs. 3.0, one in which Sonic was also sharing his expertise. A challenge I’ll have is space for the secondary actuator when stowed. 3.0 stows in the same plane as the running surface, rather than at X degrees up. Moomba also runs a huge center plate so not sure if in plane stowage will mess up the wave or not compared to a wedged boat; one way to find out. If GSA could also be used for something other than surfing without fear of ripping the screws out of the boat, I’d just build a set of those. I’m not sure how excited the local dealer will be with me trying to get some measurements on their plates at the boat show but I’m going to try. 

    For your electronics, did you use the same boards for your build as the two actuator system but with an extra relay board? I have a ton to learn about arduino to make this work, hopefully I can figure out programming before the season hits or I’ll have to settle for GSA style or Evolution style. 

    For what it's worth I used my GSA clones for launching up to 18-20mph without issue. 
    My favorite system at the moment I think is the new tige tabs or the supra swell. I like the design of the tige tabs (gsa without the diverter fins, seem to put out just as good if not better wave as the gsa they had before) and Love the actuator mounting method on the swell tabs. 

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    I hadn't seen the new tabs Tige is using, very interesting shape. They must be an improvement over GSA if they went away from it. I like the Swell actuator mount as well. I'm designing a similar mount that will allow me to play with different tab designs without drilling a bunch of holes in the back of my boat; hope it works.

    I doubt I'd use a GSA style tab much over 20, but there would probably be that one time...

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    Thanks for posting a link to the Wake9 video.  It is definitely worth watching.  They do a great job explaining so many of the things I've experienced with my DIY surf system.  They highlight how inducing to much yaw (with gates) can rob push.  I can totally relate and have created beautiful waves that sucked to ride.

    One take away I have is that the Flow 3.0 does not have full potential.   It's at a fixed angle and they were running it at 100%.  That's really the same thing as a  more complex GSA tab, they just don't have to retract the tabs as far.

    I used an 8 channel relay module which is basically 2X of the 4 channel relay module used on the 2 actuator system on one board.  All the other components are the same as the two actuator system.  I used the low level triggers rather than a high level triggers due to the number of available high level triggers on the Arduino board.  I believe the 2 actuator system used the high level triggers but could have used the low level triggers.  Perhaps @SONICJKcould confirm.

     

    On 1/22/2022 at 7:52 AM, wellis77 said:

    Definitely check out the wake 9 vid on flow 3.0,  makes me think that is the better iteration of all worlds. Also. A great discussion on the Moomba owners site of 2.0 vs. 3.0, one in which Sonic was also sharing his expertise. A challenge I’ll have is space for the secondary actuator when stowed. 3.0 stows in the same plane as the running surface, rather than at X degrees up. Moomba also runs a huge center plate so not sure if in plane stowage will mess up the wave or not compared to a wedged boat; one way to find out. If GSA could also be used for something other than surfing without fear of ripping the screws out of the boat, I’d just build a set of those. I’m not sure how excited the local dealer will be with me trying to get some measurements on their plates at the boat show but I’m going to try. 

    For your electronics, did you use the same boards for your build as the two actuator system but with an extra relay board? I have a ton to learn about arduino to make this work, hopefully I can figure out programming before the season hits or I’ll have to settle for GSA style or Evolution style. 

     

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