Russell

Hi Chase,

Im curious how similar or dissimilar your 210 is to my Sport.  I’ve never been around a 210 to be able to compare.  I’ve been trying to find a path towards an automated system for my boat for a few years.  With the exception of my attempt at mocking-up an NSS shaped “blade”,  I’ve only run my 1st gen Mission Delta.  It works pretty well.  The only NSS system I’ve experienced was a surf behind a G23 when they first hit the market.  That was my 1st time I’d surfed so easily without working really hard to not lose the wake.  In no uncertain terms, I believe the NSS is the sleekest system.  I’ve scoured the Internet for several years, hoping to find some who’s found a path forward with a hull like mine.  There’s been people who’ve gotten direct drives to throw impressive wakes.  It seems like they had heaps of ballast, to compensate for the motor living forward.  Since I’ve been not chasing the biggest wake, I’m not wanting to not only fill my trunk and ski locker ballast (approx 1,400 lbs), and I have no interest in pulling sacs on the floor and backseat, I’m limited to what size wake I can create.  I make an assumption that most of the community is striving for the biggest, most shapely wake they can create.  I’d love a bigger wake myself, even though I can foil effortlessly without any ballast, and the small wake that direct drives throw.  Riding a foil dramatically reduces the need for a big wake.  Do I covet a big wake; absolutely!!!

Im in southern Baja, wingfoiling for the winter-spring wind season.  When I get back home in a few weeks, the boat goes back in the water, and hopefully some more thoughts on an automated surf system that will make sense on my boat.  I’d be interested to see where your efforts take you.

Chase,  I made the mock-up device out of a product called Paperstone.  It’s a waterproof material that we’ve used for countertops.  Essentially multiple layers of construction paper compressed with epoxy resin under a tremendous compression.  If I come up with an NSS setup that works, I’d build the system with aluminum or steel plate.  I’ve got remnants of paperstone laying around, so that’s why I used it.  It’s very stiff and waterproof, but for the finished product I’d go steel or aluminum plate.  When I return home I can send you photos of what I made for testing.

I’m curious what changes would need to be implemented.  I built a testing device that essentially mimicking the deployed NSS.  I still have the device, but would need to measure the deployment dimensions.  I want to say the “blades” deployed equally down and out an inch or so.  I believe I filled my ballast for the test (1,400 lbs).  Possibly I tried with no ballast as well.  I’d say the results were not impressive.  Actually looked kinda crappy.  My Mission Delta produces a much more shapely and useable wake.  I make room for the possibility that the deployed blades need adjustment, just didn’t try it yet.  This summer maybe have another go at it.  I’d be curious what you come up with.  Keep me in the loop, please.

I have ballast in my ski locker, which runs forward enough to probably be considered bow weight.  You mentioned possibly a different foil.  The foil is not deficient.  I can foil almost effortlessly with zero ballast.  The ballast I currently run, along with the Delta shaper, do a good job of making the wake more fun.  I’m just guilty of wanting more than I have.  1st world problem, I know.  I’ve seen video of people with dd boats that are really heavily sacked, and producing impressive wakes.  I’m just not wanting to give-up floor space and rear seat, in the name of increased wake size.  I’m very aware that when you set ski boats deeper into the water, the opportunity of taking an unplanned roller over the side means you might put your boat on the bottom of the river.  I’m trying to find a bit more displacement, safely and hidden.  Thanks for your thoughts.

I’m assuming you’re running much more ballast than I am.  My loaded, shaped wake is significantly smaller than yours.  I’m just not wanting to throw bags on the floor and/or back seat.  Being a direct drive, already makes floor space and backseat tight.  I want all ballast hidden.  The one thing I’d consider is throwing lead into the trunk, under ballast sac.  Just not sure how much I’d need to make a notable difference.  I’m certainly not aspiring to a traditional surf boat.  Foiling is my go to, and I need zero ballast for that.  When I’ve foiled behind surf boats with big ballast, I was most definitely envious.

I’m stoked to hear you’re foiling!  I can’t get enough of it.  Boating season is still off in the distance.  I’d like to get my solution going before the season is upon us.  I mocked-up an NSS type of device.  I didn’t have it secure when I tested it last season.  It pivoted out of position when I attempted a test run.  I got a little disenchanted, and haven’t tried again with it.  If that proves to be fruitless, I’ll try a surfgate.  I was hoping that maybe I didn’t need too much more ballast, but that’s probably wishful thinking.  I noticed you do have a lot of sacs in your boat.  I’m likely not wanting to give up floor and rear seat for building more wake size.  I could wrap my head around lead in the trunk.

Maybe my wife will green light our next boat before I have to do undesirable things to our current one...

Thanks for your wisdom,

Russ

EHello Martin,

Its been a while since I’ve spoken with you about boat-stuff.  I just looked at your write-up on your boat from a few years ago.  It inspired me to start thinking about improving my wake and automated surf system.  I have my same 1999 Sport Nautique direct drive.  I may be running more ballast since I last chatted with you.  I’m running about 850 lbs in my single rear trunk.  It’s evenly weighting the trunk.  I’ve added about 450 in my ski locker, in front of my motor.  The difference is recognizable, but not profound.  I run my Mission Delta device, and the “surf side” is definitely cleaned-up.  Currently, there’s not a chance of surfing in the traditional sense (surfboard). My wake is nowhere big enough for that, particularly without the rope.   That’s actually ok since we foilsurf.  I’ve had the opportunity to foil behind a few other boats that produce noticeably bigger wakes.  Guilty confession; I prefer the bigger wake to my smaller one.  I’m curious if in your progressions, you have any advice that may aid me in my quest.  By hook or by crook, I’m going to come-up with an automated surf system, run by your controller.  I just can’t stop the over analysis-paralysis on which path to take.  The consensus on Wakegarage is that vertical deployed tabs need more ballast than I’m able to give.  I don’t want sacks on the floor or back seat of my already cozy boat.  Maybe lead under my trunk ballast would help.  I like the idea of NSS, but Max on Wakegarage says I don’t have the space I need for his NSS kit.  My Mission Delta does as advertised, which should tell me to just build automated gates.  Your boat seems to have worked well with gates.  Would you have anything that would help me break the cycle of habitually reading about the various approaches to automated surf systems, and moving forward?

I am fully aware of the limited ballast I can run, and the limited size of wake I’m going to be able to safely achieve.  Wakegarage seems mostly comprised of V-drive owners who have an advantage with ballast and where their motors already live and throw weight in the back of their boats.  I’ve read a handful of dd owners who’ve gone with gates, due to the ease of building and probability of success.

Thanks in advance, should you indulge me.

Hello Martin,

Its been a while since I’ve spoken with you about boat-stuff.  I just looked at your write-up on your boat from a few years ago.  It inspired me to start thinking about improving my wake and automated surf system.  I have my same 1999 Sport Nautique direct drive.  I may be running more ballast since I last chatted with you.  I’m running about 850 lbs in my single rear trunk.  It’s evenly weighting the trunk.  I’ve added about 450 in my ski locker, in front of my motor.  The difference is recognizable, but not profound.  I run my Mission Delta device, and the “surf side” is definitely cleaned-up.  Currently, there’s not a chance of surfing in the traditional sense (surfboard). My wake is nowhere big enough for that, particularly without the rope.   That’s actually ok since we foilsurf.  I’ve had the opportunity to foil behind a few other boats that produce noticeably bigger wakes.  Guilty confession; I prefer the bigger wake to my smaller one.  I’m curious if in your progressions, you have any advice that may aid me in my quest.  By hook or by crook, I’m going to come-up with an automated surf system, run by your controller.  I just can’t stop the over analysis-paralysis on which path to take.  The consensus on Wakegarage is that vertical deployed tabs need more ballast than I’m able to give.  I don’t want sacks on the floor or back seat of my already cozy boat.  Maybe lead under my trunk ballast would help.  I like the idea of NSS, but Max on Wakegarage says I don’t have the space I need for his NSS kit.  My Mission Delta does as advertised, which should tell me to just build automated gates.  Your boat seems to have worked well with gates.  Would you have anything that would help me break the cycle of habitually reading about the various approaches to automated surf systems, and moving forward?

I am fully aware of the limited ballast I can run, and the limited size of wake I’m going to be able to safely achieve.  Wakegarage seems mostly comprised of V-drive owners who have an advantage with ballast and where their motors already live and throw weight in the back of their boats.  I’ve read a handful of dd owners who’ve gone with gates, due to the ease of building and probability of success.

Thanks in advance, should you indulge me.

Your foiling wake is seemingly perfect.  If I could get my boat to do that, I’d be super-stoked.

Once you start foiling, you’re gonna sell your surfboard.  Just sayin😏

I have approximately 9” from the vertical, outboard edges of my transom to the subtle change of angle, and the swim platform brackets; am I out of the running?

Sage to say, an angle split between vertical and horizontal axis?  I’ll measure today, and send a photo.  Hypothetically, if we check the boxes favorably, what can I expect for installing all the parts and pieces required for working system?  Do you sell a complete kit, or just the tabs?  I’ll take the question a step further and ask if this is a complete kit, do I have a shot at a rider-held controller for transfers?

Where does that measurement begin; vertical edge of the transom, looking towards the swim step bracket?

I have no idea how similar or dissimilar they are.  I could send a photo.

I have a ‘99 Sport Nautique, and would love to know if NSS-style tabs would be feasible.  I’m currently considering Go Surf Assist and Infinity wave.net.  The  NSS-style would be much cleaner looking.  I’d be happy to trace the shape of my transom, if that would help with a response.